Jacob i loved Esau I hated

When I first saw this in Romans 9, I was confused and struggled. How was it that God, who is love, hate someone?

When studying the Bible, it is crucially important to always study the context of a particular Bible verse or passage. In these instances, the Prophet Malachi and the Apostle Paul are using the name “Esau” to refer to the Edomites, who were the descendants of Esau. Isaac and Rebekah had two sons, Esau and Jacob. God chose Jacob (whom He later renamed Israel) to be the father of His chosen people, the Israelites. God rejected Esau (who was also called Edom), and did not choose him to be the father of His chosen people. Esau’s and his descendants, the Edomites, were in many ways blessed by God (Genesis 33:9; Genesis chapter 36).

So, considering the context, God loving Jacob and hating Esau has nothing to do with the human emotions of love and hate. It has everything to do with God choosing one man and his descendants and rejecting another man and his descendants. God choose Abraham out of all the men in the world. The Bible very well could say, “Abraham I loved, and every other man I hated.” God choose Abraham’s son Isaac instead of Abraham’s son Ishmael. The Bible very well could say, “Isaac I loved, and Ishmael I hated.”

Here is a note from the NEXT Bible : The context indicates this is technical covenant vocabulary in which “love” and “hate” are synonymous with “choose” and “reject” respectively (see Deut 7:8; Jer 31:3; Hos 3:1; 9:15; 11:1).

Romans chapter 9 makes it abundantly clear that loving Jacob and hating Esau was entirely related to which of them God chose. Hundreds of years after Jacob and Esau had died, the Israelites and Edomites became bitter enemies. The Edomites often aided Israel’s enemies in attacks on Israel. Esau’s descendants brought God’s curse on themselves. Genesis 27:29, “May nations serve you and peoples bow down to you. Be lord over your brothers, and may the sons of your mother bow down to you. May those who curse you be cursed and those who bless you be blessed.”

Some sources:
http://www.gotquestions.org/Jacob-Esau-love-hate.html
http://net.bible.org/passage.php?passage=Mal+1:2-3
http://www.meguiar.addr.com/Jacob_Esau.htm

Justice and God

Some atheists use the injustice argument for atheism…
They will say that God cannot exist because there is no justice in the world, or if he does exist then he is some kind of sick, evil being who is cruel and unjust…(hence why they chose to be atheist, mostly do to spite and not real logic.)
may I ask where then did this sense of justice come from?

Justice and Morality are not from feelings or expectations
There is no sense to the idea that we all as humans should expect to be treated fair, and others to treat us as we treat them, without this idea of morality having a starting point.

The starting pointing is God. He puts order in the world. He created us to have a sense of morality and justice.

I believe that Justice and morality come from God. Assuming that everyone else has this since of justice and morality… where did it come form?…it came from God!

Read list:

CS LEWIS -Mere Christianity

DALE FINCHER – Living With Questions

The real problem…

Overvalued housing around the USA.
Think about it, foreclosures, devaluing economy…

There is not any “bail out” plan that is going to solve anything. (Besides like I said in the previous post the bail out plan was a temporary fix that had absolutely nothing to do with the real issues and was NOT going to help the real sufferers, homeowners.)

What is the real issue? What will fix the problem? What is the foundational issues?

Over valued homes. Right now homes are over valued by 50% and greater in some areas.
Te problem was not that people could not afford the over priced homes, or at least not originally…you will see how overpriced housing affects everything else!

People were then getting loans to buy these really nice but over valued homes….

These loans were more debt.

So what is next?

2 things:
1. time. Just relax. It is inevitable, people are going to lose some money and it is not going to be pretty. Over time in the long haul we will be back to normal.
2. but first we must see the housing market change and adjust. Not too long ago, the housing market was the place to be! Homes that could have been built for $100K were being valued for $!M and more! The market was a boom and everyone and their brother was getting on board, greed cycled. Rich people at first were buying these nice homes. And eventually Mr. and Mrs. Jones were buying over valued homes, because even the cheaper homes that would have cost $10K to build were being marked up for $100K. Greed is a vicious cycle. Keeping up with the Joneses, anyone who was not selling homes (or winning the lottery) was taking out loans to afford thier homes.

More debt.

The real problem is not in Wall Street, but on Main Street. Banks closed (and sold to either Chase or Citi) and foreclosures were everywhere!!!!

Now Wall Street is seeing a tiny bit of what Main Street is feeling. Wall Street complains about this despite America’s strong economy and still strong when you look at us on a “bad day” compared to the entire world.

Forget about Wall Street, start dealing with the real issues of over priced homes on Main Street. Give it time and dont worry too much. But DO NOT support bail out plans that only benifit Wall Street and politicians. Tell your politicians that you want a plan that benifits homeowners, not their own pocket books.

Bailout not wise….

If you have seen my recent statuses (or stati?) and posted items on Facebook, you are well aware of where I stand in light of this bailout plan.
I am agianst it. I think it is not wise. It is a fast “solution” to a problem that has develpoed over a long period of time, almost a decade.
First off, give me one good example of a time when a decade of decay was completely resolved and fixed in one week’s time. This is not possible. I fear that after this “bail out,” Congress will go back to their old ways. The will sign this bill and mark it off their TTD list. They will go back to continue spending money they don’t have. Continue adding more tax money to their salary.
Second off, why are we putting so much hope in Congress!? They are the ones who put us in the hole and now we are asking them to solve the problem? NO. That is stupid! They have motives for their own benefit, they obviously are not representing us the people. If they were really representing us, we would not have been in the hole the first place! We need to elect people who have our agenda, force Congress to think through a solution that will actually work and give them TIME to do it, or allow a third party group to clean up the Congress.
Thirdly, I want to address the bailout plan…
Section A. It is a temporary fix. It is only addressing the smptoms of a bad economy and is not actually dealing with the fundamental economic issues that are really at hand and the root of all our problems.
Section B. The bail out, it more of a benifit to Wall Street and NOT a benifit to home owners. Agian, Congress have their own motives. They look good for “fixing” something from a national perspective, but really the members of their individual respective states are suffering. The home owners are still losing. Debt and finaincial crisis is still there and it is not going away.
Section C. Look at their soluion….they want more of our tax money. They are not sacrificing anything. They are getting more pork. They are still very secure as Congressmen. They are porking it up….porking up our tax money to fix a problem they created! I hate this!
Fourthly, I hate this becuase my generation is left victim. I am going to be paying for the mistakes of these white head old men long after tehy are dead and gone. Their solution demands my sacrifice but not thiers. They will rot and die and I will still be giving them money.
My generation, I pray learns to be NOTHING like these stupid selfish sandbagging greeds in the White House. This actually is a great oppurtunity for the younger, smarter generation of political leaders to step up and do the right thing, to represent the common folks and save America and its debt. But it also will be the hardest thing my generation has ever done. It will be a challenge and there will be the tempation for them to fall into the same mistakes and fall into the same pockets of greed and debt. But I have a high hopes for my generation. (for now.)

Personal religion and Public Politics

Trust in God rather than political measures. Leaders may think they can see what needs to be done in a situation, but in reality things are unfolding according to God’s purposes.

Read Eze. 11:19-20, 36:26.

Political programs are compatible with religion of the heart…they are not a private matters. It is a mistake to have no place for religion in public policy because the Old Testament text demands obedience from the heart as a people of God together. Formally organized side of religion can and ought to be part of a full response to God. Religious life is not separate from political organization.

Free will or Soverign God in relation to righteous Prophets

In the Prophets there is a point at which God says “no more! That is it! I am going to punish you…I gave you the chance!”

There are times where the faithful and righteous followers of God intervened through prayer and God listened…God gave his people another chance.

Then there are times when God refuses to listen to even the righteous when the his people have broken the “threshold” (if it where). Then it is all God, no matter what the righteous followers do or say.

Of course the argument could go for or against either side…ultimately a Sovereign God is going to punish them eventually or ultimately the people were going to choice to sin and life a lifestyle of disobedience.

But I want to look at both sides of the argument and say that in the Sovereignty of God and in the responsibility of man –there is a balance! Through-out Scripture and in real life…

Sure Calvinists and Arminists can fight all they want but I want to look deeper and see that both sides have a point. Look at Scripture and see the balance.

Grace, Love, Justice of God!

“God heals the wounds of the inflected by his blow. ” Is. 30:25

People must be humbled. God must be lifted up. God must punish but even more so God wants to bless. He patiently waits until he can bless even though he is bound to punish sin first. God is amazing.

Trying to contemplate this type of love – this type of patience….is impossible, it is beyond comprehension.

By human standards, it is not even possible to muster up enough both love and justice to punish those we love and then come in with grace and mercy, the way that God does.